Adsense and Kontera...and others! [Archive]

fisinc

10-22-2005, 09:18 AM

Hi All,

I sent Goggle the question to hear is direct from them about having Kontera on the same page (figured that was no), but also on a differnet page on the same website even though there may not be any Adsense on that page...same goes for search Here is their reply:

Google AdSense program policy does not permit Google ads to be published on the same web page as other contextually-targeted ads. More broadly, our policy does not permit Google ads to be displayed on the same website as ads that mimic or attempt to be associated with Google ads. According to these program policies, Kontera may not be displayed on the same page as Google ads on your site. We do allow affiliate or limited-text links.
For publishers participating in AdSense for search, please note that we do not allow other search services or query-targeted ads to be displayed on the same site as AdSense for search.

melody

10-24-2005, 10:01 AM

That's interesting and not good news! In fact I first heard about Kontera from Joel and he seemed to be under the impression (from Google) that you could use Kontera on the same page -

Joel - could you clarify? have you had any further word on this from the Google Gods?

drsuccess

10-24-2005, 12:09 PM

Kontera also offers either block ads as well as link ads. Links are acceptable. Block ads (they actually do look like Google) are not. And this is what Google is referring to, I believe.

Here are 2 key pieces from Google's reply: "Ads that mimic or attempt to be associated with Google ads." And, "We do allow affiliate or limited-text links." Block ads are not allowed because they compete with Google in that they look the same.

OttawaAdsense

10-24-2005, 01:35 PM

Has anyone else had problems with page rendering times with Kontera? I was using the one that parses the page and replaces text with links. Ppl were really complaining about load times and I tested it myself and it was painful. I took them off and it was back to normal.

drsuccess

10-24-2005, 01:45 PM

Good point. But I've seen load times suck in terms of the links changing dynamically and not page loads being affected by Kontera.

(BTW, hello from Ottawa, too. :) )

fisinc

10-24-2005, 01:54 PM

I believe it was very specific:

Kontera may not be displayed on the same page as Google ads on your site

PERIOD!

Hey if you want to take the chance, then go for it. To me I can just create a specific site to Kontera and not have to worry about losing my AS acct. ;)

asokas

10-24-2005, 02:01 PM

Hello,

I have tested Kontera with a few pages on my site, and so far, the results do not inspire me much.

It seems to me that they do not pick up the context of the page and display relevant ads nearly as well as Adsense. I sent in my feedback via email to Kontera support last week, and have yet to hear anything back. Here is some of what I said:

"I have the system running on several pages on my aksworld.com self help metaphysical site.

I've checked the pages and I see ads for (a) a legal firm for keyword "Law" (actually "law of attraction"), (b) Microsoft Live Meeting for keyword "seminar" and for "business", (c) Loan Money for "money", (d) Poly Tone wallpaper for "The Key", (e) High Tech institutes for "high-tech".

Overall, I would say that your system does not do anywhere near as good a job at determining the meaning and context of a page as Google AdSense does... It seems that yours just targets the individual keywords, totally regardless of their context."

This has been my experience to date.

Regards,

Asoka

drsuccess

10-24-2005, 02:09 PM

I believe it was very specific:

Kontera may not be displayed on the same page as Google ads on your site

PERIOD!

I believe Google is referring to the block ads. That's what Kontera's main product is, which is in direct competition with Google. Their "ad links" program is different.

But...

Just to clarify, I just wrote to Google with a very detailed question about this, to be ultra-specific. I will post my answer once I get it, here.

goofy166

10-24-2005, 06:51 PM

Hello,

I have tested Kontera with a few pages on my site, and so far, the results do not inspire me much.

Asoka

I completely agree. Not one of the there click ads related to my pages. I believe the problem is they dont have very many advertisers and so there is nothing to put on your site. My site is about birds and the only click ads appear on words like "search engine" or "technology" and they are ads from AMD and other chip makers. Waste of time and NRG.

BTW I have switched to Yahoo's new ad program, and its generating a lot more cash than Google.

fisinc

10-30-2005, 08:56 AM

I believe Google is referring to the block ads. That's what Kontera's main product is, which is in direct competition with Google. Their "ad links" program is different.

But...

Just to clarify, I just wrote to Google with a very detailed question about this, to be ultra-specific. I will post my answer once I get it, here.

Hi Michel,

Any word back from Google?

elitemktr

10-30-2005, 05:53 PM

Hello..
I'm finding this discussion about Kontera interesting and I'm hoping to collect some more information on their program. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

I also agree that it's bad news... not being allowed to display their ads on the same page as google...

drsuccess

10-31-2005, 02:31 PM

Hi Michel,

Any word back from Google?

Yes, in fact, there was a back-and-forth discussion, because their 1st answer was a canned answer, based on the more popular notion of Kontera's services, which is block ads or text-based ads -- not links within text. The 3rd and final (and more specific answer) answer came this morning:

My last email to them was:

Subject: RE: [#36791613] Competitive And Non-Competitive Ads

Thank you so much for your response.

But something is still unclear to me, and I want to preserve my good standing with Google and want to ensure that I completely follow your policies and rules as to not jeopardize this.

So, could you please clarify your point:

"We do allow affiliate or limited-text links, but we do not allow text-based ads that either directly mimic or attempt to be associated with Google ads."

[Edited: This follow up to their 2nd email from them was to clarify what "text-based" ads, which are what Google's ad units or ad blocks are. Not links within content.]

Exactly, what do you mean by "text-based ads," and "directly mimic or attempt to be associated with Google ads"? What about plain links within the content? What I mean is not text-based ads that are separate and competing with AdSense. These are ad links within the content itself.

Thank you so much.

To higher response,

Michel Fortin
Salesletter Copywriter
The Success Doctor, Inc.
Main http://SuccessDoctor.com/

Their response is as follows (and please remember that I'm not a lawyer, I'm not a Google representative and I'm not advocating what the content implies):

Hello Michel,

Please be assured that plain links on your site are permissible. In
regards to mimicking, AdSense doesn't allow ads that bear a striking
resemblance to Google ads to appear on the same site.

Sincerely,

Katie
The Google AdSense Team

fisinc

10-31-2005, 03:52 PM

Hi Michel,

Maybe you should have asked them directly if Kontera "text based" link ads can appear on the same page as Adsense ads.

If Google's position is no, then what about pages of content on the same website, but bearing Kontera "test based" ads only on those pages.

It seems to me that with Google stating that once I have AS anywhere on my site that I cannot put competing ads on other pages not displaying AS, sounds like a 1st amendment violation (for us US based people).

Maybe we should contact Kontera and ask them how they feel about it with Google AS on pages with THEIR links!

This thread should prove interesting once we get an answer...hey Joel and input?

drsuccess

10-31-2005, 03:59 PM

Please note that I attempted to clarify "text-based." Google AdSense (other than image-based or banner ads) ARE text-based. They have text. I wanted to clarify if it implied "content-based" or "within content" as opposed to "text-based" ads.

But no, I didn't clarify the "site" policy. I may get clarification on that, too. What happens if ads from other networks appear on the same site on non-AdSense pages?

I'll let you know.

drsuccess

10-31-2005, 04:07 PM

OK, I just sent another email.

Thank you so much.

One last clarification.

With regards to your email, you said "site." I need clarification on that, too. What happens if ads from other ad networks appear on the same website but on non-AdSense pages? Does this mean that, if I have AdSense on one page, I cannot have any other ad from any other network on any other page within the same website? And what consitutes a "site?" Is it the same domain? What about subdomains? What about sub-directories? What about pages of different functionality, such as pages with static content versus a blog on the same domain?

Thank you.

To higher response,

Michel Fortin
Salesletter Copywriter
The Success Doctor, Inc.
Main http://SuccessDoctor.com/

drsuccess

10-31-2005, 11:40 PM

Finally got the answer back from Google:

Hello Michel,

Please note that our ad policy applies on a per-page basis, meaning that
your individual web pages may not run Google ads and other ads that bear a
striking resemblance to Google ads on the same web pages. However,
separate web pages within a domain may run either Google ads or other
types of ads.

Sincerely,

Katie
The Google AdSense Team

shafferb1

11-03-2005, 06:28 AM

It does seem that at times, Adsense support does contradict itself. Remember the 'images on top of ads' issue?

I have taken to emailing Google asking them if a particular page is alright when I am testing a new concept before making the page live. They seem to get back very quickly usually.

This ensures that my Adsense account keeps running and that I am always covered and kept up to date with their policies.

Ben

fisinc

11-03-2005, 07:12 AM

This is great news...thanks Michel

Ads that ARE similiar to Google's are Yahoo's

This thread seems complete to me....now lets start a new one on Chitika

pml

11-14-2005, 07:03 PM

OK, so what exactly was the FINAL verdict on this? Can we or can we not use Kontera text-link ads (which ARE context-sensitive advertising after all...) alongside Google AdSense ads? I still can't get a definitive answer from this thread, though it's the closest I've seen so far!

I would tend to lean towards it being OK for the same reasons others have posted; the ads do not mimic AdSense in any way. But also as with others, I don't want to lose my AdSense account over it. Anyone? I'm surprised I haven't seen Joel offer any direct input here... Joel?

fisinc

11-14-2005, 07:20 PM

Google states NO, but Joel has a mixture of them on his site.

pml

11-14-2005, 09:12 PM

That's where I'm confused though, where has Google stated specifically that Kontera's text-link ads are not permissable? I haven't seen that explicitly stated. it can certainly be inferred, but I'd prefer to see it absolutely stated in no uncertain terms...

Thanks!

netwarrior

11-15-2005, 09:30 AM

Finally got the answer back from Google:
Hi,Joel ,Michel & all,
Can we get a definite answer from Google team (a yes or a no !) as to whether we are allowed by google TOS to use Kontera adlinks textmatch on the same webpages as google ads .

We all got the same canned message by the google team when we asked the question maybe Joel or some one who is a premuim publisher with a personal google Rep can ask and share with us all a definite yes or no ?

I think Joel your google Rep can help answer this very simple question for us ,care to give this a try on our behalf ?

Thanks

netwarrior

fisinc

11-16-2005, 08:24 AM

Ok...I found the link that either proves that Kontera and Google can be on the same page or Joel did this as a test and forgot about it.

Frankly, I do not think he forgot about it as doing so he could risk his AS account. I am also surprised he has not posted an answer to this question.
However Joel did make this comment in an email to me, so I am now totally confused...

From Joel - Kontera and AdSense can NOT be on the same page. However, Kontera is a great replacement for AdSense pages with low CTR.

But now look at this link:
http://www.joelcomm.com/what_i_discovered_this_weekend.html#more

It had AS and Kontera.....someone shoot me now!

Joel Comm

11-16-2005, 01:40 PM

Sorry gang.. been busy.

I have no special relationship with Google regarding Kontera. From Michel's correspondence with Google AdSense team, I believe that it is now alright to run Kontera ads with AdSense. The ads do NOT "mimic" the AdSense ads.

So that is what I am going by for now...

Joel

NorthOfTheCity

11-16-2005, 05:10 PM

Wow...yet another three page forum dance provided yet again by Googy. And the final answer is...nobody knows for certain! Googy seems to love muddy waters and having its "associates" (us) try to guess about its policies. This is unfortunate because Googy folks can come up with straight answers...if they want to. But, it seems they don't.

Personally, I wouldn't want to mix ads from different providers. There is only so much real-estate on a page, so I want to deal with only the highest paying ads, be it Google, Kontera or whomever.

SAinc

11-18-2005, 09:29 AM

Some earlier discussion in this thread made me wonder if experimenting with Yahoo Publishers Network can violate Google's TOS.

Here's my question:

Google rules say that you can't post ads that "mimic" Google Adsense ads anywhere on the same site (even if they are not on the same page). Earlier in this thread I think Joel says that he believes Kontera's ad box "mimics Google." So, does anyone know if the Yahoo Publishers Network (YPN) ads are considered to mimic Google? If so, does this mean you can't put YPN ads on any site where you have AdSense ads, even if theya re not on the same page?

Thanks for your help!!!

elitemktr

11-18-2005, 11:57 AM

yeah that's a pretty important question that needs an answer because I was about to try this and really don't want to cause problems for myself...

matchdoctor

11-18-2005, 05:34 PM

Can you use Kontera with YPN?

SAinc

11-22-2005, 11:28 AM

Google sent me an answer to my question regarding using the Yahoo Publisher Network and Google Adsense ads on the same site (but not the same page). This is permissable!

The note says that you may show other contextual ads on the same site but not on the same page as AdSense ads.

flyer

11-26-2005, 01:26 PM

> sounds like a 1st amendment violation (for us US based people).

That applies to the government, not corporations. And Google is not telling you what you can have on your site, but what content is acceptable for sites running their ads. Big difference.

Imagica5

12-02-2005, 01:35 AM

Wow...yet another three page forum dance provided yet again by Googy. And the final answer is...nobody knows for certain!

Mmmm if you ask the right question you usually get a definitive answer ;)
We run Google Ad Sense & Kontera keyword Ad Links on the same pages so we asked our Kontera rep & he said....

"Regarding Google’s T&Cs, you are not in violation. In fact, I worked with Google on this. The product you are using, Ad Link, is not in violation. I’m 100% on this. We have similar product to Ad Sense, called TextMatch; this raises flags at Google. Google and their Account Managers have lists of competitors next to their desk that list competing companies. If you do not specifically explain that you are using Kontera’s Ad Link product which provided in text advertising, they will assume it’s the TextMatch product. We actually have a former Google Ad Sense employee working for Kontera now. "

FYI - with Google & Kontera on the same page we find that the Google ad clicks are excellent, the Kontera clicks are average. Kontera ads aren't really targeted to content so they don't perform as well as they could but, at least on our site, they do work well together.

In case you visit my site & wonder why you're only seeing Google ads... we're trying to sort out a page-load-slow-down issue with Kontera.

jetbrains

08-02-2006, 12:36 AM

It's against google TOS,

BusyGirl

08-04-2006, 12:04 AM

This is a bit off topic for this thread, but I wanted to say that this seems to be total BS:

Hello Michel,

Please be assured that plain links on your site are permissible. In
regards to mimicking, AdSense doesn't allow ads that bear a striking
resemblance to Google ads to appear on the same site.

Sincerely,

Katie
The Google AdSense Team

I found a site about THREE MONTHS ago that had ads on it that were made to look almost exactly like AdSense ads, so I e-mailed the AdSense abuse department with the URL (and there was another violation at the site too, having a page with no content and ONLY AdSense ads) and nothing seems to have been done about it. I even wrote to them a SECOND time about three or four weeks later and now, three months after my original report and two months after my second report, the site is still serving ads like normal.

This really bugs me. First of all, it upsets me that they would allow this type of thing to happen and completely ignore blatant rule-breakers. Secondly, if it was me, I'm quite certain that I would have been canned by now if I had been reported for a violation of this nature and had refused to respond for MONTHS.

I also reported another site I found which had altered the AdSense code severely and after two weeks that one remained unchanged and still serving ads like normal. Unfortunately I can't remember the URL to that one now, so I have no idea if it is still up.

It seems like they either (a) don't really care about this rule at all or (b) make special exceptions for certain sites or (c) are extremely random about responding to violations. :confused:

wm8c

08-04-2006, 08:17 AM

This is a bit off topic for this thread, but I wanted to say that this seems to be total BS:
--sections ommitted--
It seems like they either (a) don't really care about this rule at all or (b) make special exceptions for certain sites or (c) are extremely random about responding to violations. :confused:
I can understand your frustration, but I would focus more earning money fro yourself rather than worrying about things you can't control on other peoples sites. Put more effort into yourself and less into worrying about others and you'll be much happier with the result :)

Joel Comm

08-04-2006, 01:39 PM

After over nine months of deliberation and conflicting replies from Google, we now have a definitive answer. While it appears that Michel Fortin's original correspondence with the AdSense team would indicate that you CAN display AdSense with Kontera Ad Links, my communication with Google has stated otherwise. Here is the final email I received from the AdSense team.

Thanks for checking with us. As a confirmation, Kontera AdLink ads are categorized as "contextually-targeted" ads. As previously mentioned, AdSense program policy does not permit Google ads to be published on the same page as these types of ads. However, you're more than welcome to place these ads on pages that don't include Google ads. We apologize for any confusion we may have caused.

So there you have it. I went back and forth with them several times explaining the difference between TextMatch and AdLinks, to clarify that the ads are not mimicking Google ads. The problem they have is indeed contextually related, and not that the ads mimic.

While I have not heard of anyone receiving emails from Google asking them not to run AdSense with Kontera (and I have done it for some time...), the official word now is that you may NOT run them together.

I think this has been confusing for many of us, and frankly, I am surprised at this response from Google. Since they don't own a patent on contextual advertising and the Kontera links look nothing like AdSense ads, you wouldn't think there would be a problem.

It's going to be interesting to watch as the competition with YPN, and eventually MSN, heats up. It appears people are going to have to choose...

Joel

GunMuse

08-13-2006, 01:46 AM

I can tell all of you Don't let Google bully you on this. UNTIL Google provides a product that competes with KON. "Their answer will always be we don't want you looking around at other people"

What google won't tell you is that pulling your account when they don't have a similar product launched would put them at legal risk for attempting to monopolize.

Kon's product will never improve if they are left on the bottom tier by communistic thinking where google wants to control your site as if it was their own property.

GOOGLE NEEDS CONTENT without it they are a worthless database code. For them to dictate terms of what is supposed to be a symbotic relationship is neither legal nor ethical.

Don't bend and force them to build a competeing product or use their billions of dollars to buy out kon.

ultimatehandyman

10-31-2007, 07:18 AM

I have just been approached by Kontera to see if I would add Kontera ads to my site, I was unsure as to whether or not it was against TOS and so I did a google for adsense and Kontera and this thread was at the top of google ;)

The weird thing is that they showed me a site that is using both Google adsense and Kontera on the same page!

I would not do anything to risk loosing adsense ;)

lipz

10-31-2007, 10:20 AM

jeremy108

11-06-2007, 10:50 AM

Hey Joel,

On your website Worldvillage.com you have adsense,
plus you have these content links, isn't that Kontera,
if not what is it.

http://www.worldvillage.com/

lipz

11-06-2007, 09:33 PM

Hey Joel,

On your website Worldvillage.com you have adsense,
plus you have these content links, isn't that Kontera,
if not what is it.

http://www.worldvillage.com/

what pages did you see these links? I can't find Kontera anywhere

jeremy108

11-07-2007, 03:08 PM

click-thru to each article, give it a fews seconds then you'll see them.

they are content links in blue underlined twice.

http://blog.worldvillage.com/health/_byetta_diabetes_drug_suspected_in_acute_pancreati tis.html

http://blog.worldvillage.com/health/have_you_been_to_a_dermatologist_lately.html

they are on every full article with adsense.

lipz

11-07-2007, 09:23 PM