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View Full Version : I'm right, you are wrong, Google! (Long post)


Malachim
12-17-2005, 04:31 PM
No, I'm not in trouble, yet, I hope, but I am having a go at the buggers. I'm sure some of your know how prissy I get about the under the hood stuff...

Well, I'm fed up arguing with their support staff over their naff code and have fired off this to them:

-----------------------------------------------------------

Copies:
* US Goverment, United States Access Board, A Federal Agency Committed to Accessible Design
* US Government, Section 508
* W3 WAI
* International Center for Disability Resources on the Internet
* U.S. Department of Justine: Americans with Disabilities Act
* Press and Adsense UK at Google


Hi Colm,

Thanks for your clarification

In reply to this line of your reply:

" To uphold the quality and reputation of Google AdSense "

Actually the quality of your default Adsense code is amateurish and considering your standing, frankly disgracefully.
Similarly, amongst usability and accessibility circles, your reputation is in tatters!

Importantly, as IBM found out to their cost some folk actually taking accessibility laws seriously as they are one prominent company that fell foul of accessibily laws:

Google for 'IBM sued accessibility' and you'll find entries like this: http://www.tomw.net.au/2001/bat2001.html ]

Basically, in issuing this sub-standard code you - and anyone that uses it - are liable under US 508 regulations (etc) regarding access for the disabled.


See also
http://www.section508.gov

http://www.access-board.gov/sec508/guide/1194.22.htm

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/508/508law.html

http://www.ada.gov/

http://www.icdri.org/CynthiaW/is_%20yoursite_ada_compliant.htm

http://usability.gov/accessibility/


Well, I'm sure your lawyers can look it up, eh!

Please note that this applies equally to other default codes - code of which cannot be corrected by end users. For instant, both the Adsense and Firefox referral banners both fail to provide even a basic "alt tag".

Basically, any indivual or company that wants to include your banners etc but wants or needs to keep their web site legal and valid under US508 or WAI A, WAI AA, or WAI AAA has only three options:


1. Not use you.

2. Correct the faults, thus violating your T&C at the cost of Adsense account

3. Consider a class action against you as your T&C's force end users to use invalid code, even illegal code


Anyway, here's two annotated pages for you to consider.
The first uses default Google SiteSearch table.
The second** uses a modified form, replacing the table with a div and a valid form

http://www.wwwxbox360.co.uk/googlesearch-table.php

http://www.wwwxbox360.co.uk/googlesearch-accessible-form.php


** This includes pre-populating the box with a generic term 'your terms' as, again, failure to include an entry for the search box, i.e. [ value="some entry" ] violates accessibily rules.

NOTE:
These pages are live for demonstration purposes only and will be deleted after your reply.

Personally - and I ask that you can pass this on to your management and senior directors - I find it both disgusting and morally reprehensible that a company of your size and stature can be so arrogant as to force invalid and in cases (I believe) illegal code, upon countless millions of publishers effectively under the ruling:

"Do as we say or we'll close your account, forever!"


Equally damning, I find, is that fact you can't even make your home page [www.google.com] accessible beyond passing US508. For WAI testing it fails miserably.

To paraphrase Grandpa Simpson: "For shame, Google"

At the end of up, I'm embarrassed to sum up, "I'm right, you're wrong", because I am right - and you know it - and I'm really not happy that you are forcing me to use such poor code because in your arrogance you seem to believe:

"We're right, you're wrong, because if you don't follow our rules to the letter we'll close your account. We don't care, there's always others to take your place".

If you and your company can give me one single reason why you can't offer publishers a selection of 'WAI AAA' and US508 valid code for search boxes, banners etc, I will go away humbled.

Come on, I'm one disabled man, typing away at home, you are a multi-national corporation... I can duplicate a completely valid and accessible search box in every single size and shape of format you offer for Adsense for Content... Give me one reason you can't with all the PhD's you have working for you !

Shame on the lot of you!

Regard,


Paul Ackerley

Mytigodess
12-18-2005, 09:38 AM
Go Malachim! Way to tell them off! Not that it will do a fat lot of bloody good. Only a big fat lawsuit will change it. When you critiqued my site, you noticed my page passed the W3C standards despite the Google codes on the pages :D Didn't cut it with the disability codes, though.

I am only one person, a stay at home mother with two children roaming about and chronic asthma, and I have to deal with all sorts of requests from people who come to my site asking me to change something to make it more user friendly while still trying to keep the correct codes.

It is not easy. I do not have a college degree. I do not have a staff. I taught myself how to put up a web site 8 years ago to get out of a really bad profession. Yet, whenever someone asks me to change something to improve it, I jump to it.

What is Google's excuse? Isn't the point of a professional business to serve the needs of your customer and to satisfy your business partners and associates?

Malachim
12-18-2005, 02:52 PM
Yep, about sums it up, Mytigodess. I mean, half their served banners don't even include an alt tag, how hard can it be!

As you say, probably won't go a blind bit of good, there's even a risk they'll get prissy and (gulp) cancel my Adsense, but if so, so be it. At the end of the day I'm not dropping my standard because they can't be bothered validating their own code. Even their home page is a disgrace. Blah!

I'll let y'all know how it goes anyway.

irishman
12-20-2005, 06:21 PM
Yep, about sums it up, Mytigodess. I mean, half their served banners don't even include an alt tag, how hard can it be!

As you say, probably won't go a blind bit of good, there's even a risk they'll get prissy and (gulp) cancel my Adsense, but if so, so be it. At the end of the day I'm not dropping my standard because they can't be bothered validating their own code. Even their home page is a disgrace. Blah!

I'll let y'all know how it goes anyway.

Hi - just wondering what problem you've had with host europe / pipex - I've used them but had no real gripes - anything happening I should know about?

Jim

Malachim
12-20-2005, 08:02 PM
Start with 50% downtime for November for my reseller server. My web sites off-line for two weeks solid - and never right since. And customer service just ducked and dived the whole time, IMO.

Had to order a server form GoDaddy and setup sites there. And Webfusion/Pipex's best offer - well, obviously you are a little upset, will a free month hosting calm you down?

It wasn't one of my sites, but one reseller also on the server was really buggered. His client had just embarked on an PPC promotion with Overture, paying £3.50 ($6) for the keywords. And every click-thru bounced because the server was down - and they couldn't get it back on line :eek:

I swear to god, there's a line in the T&C that says essentially, if it you lose everything and they admit negligence -they are not liable. :eek: :mad:

Try Googling for 'Webfusion downtime' or support or issue or problems or...

Actually, just look at the list they admit to [ http://www.hosting-status.pipex.net/ ]

If they reboot or fix it before anyone complains, well, it never happened...

The general consensus is they are massively overloading the servers with users and they have us sewn up tight with the agreement.

All I wanted was a refund for the balance (after paying a year in advace) and ordering another VPS elsewhere. They can't because they have a strict policy of never refunding or compensating anyone, ever, regardless of the reason.

Here's a few quotes (*their typos'):


Unfortunately, if you were to sipmly cancel your account then, despite the problems you have expereinced on your server, we would not be able to offer you a refund. Indeed, as we have no stipulations under our terms and conditions that would entitle you to compensation in this instance I am afraid that we would unable to offer any if this course of action was taken.

What would you like to make this issue better? We genuinely have no process to move your resold from Mango for you.

The 99% uptime is an aim and not a guarantee

The dedicated servers do offer an SLA against the 99.9% uptime, but in both cases (shared and dedicated), this is against Network connectivity, not server uptime

I would suggest that a VPS server is not for you, as this is a new product and we are having some teething problems since its release, and extended resolution times.



The dedicated one is a corker. Effectively if THEIR network is fine, but your dedicated server blows a gasket, you have no comeback because of the wording. Also, the clock starts ticking after you report it... If they don't notice and you don't tell them, well, tough!

Mutter...

.

Malachim
12-20-2005, 08:17 PM
Hello Paul,

Thank you for following up on this matter. We do allow modification of our
code to comply with
W3C HTML and XHTML standards. Please note that the AdSense for search code
may only be modified in order for XHTML compliance, and the behaviour of
the form may not be altered. In particular, we do not allow pre-populating
the search box.

As for the examples you provided, the example on
[ googlesearch-accessible-form.php ] is a valid
alteration to our code, granted that you remove the pre-populated 'your
terms' text from the search field.

We appreciate your understanding.

.

That's me fixing my Searches in a minute. :)

irishman
12-21-2005, 04:51 AM
Start with 50% downtime for November for my reseller server. My web sites off-line for two weeks solid - and never right since. And customer service just ducked and dived the whole time, IMO.

Had to order a server form GoDaddy and setup sites there. And Webfusion/Pipex's best offer - well, obviously you are a little upset, will a free month hosting calm you down?

It wasn't one of my sites, but one reseller also on the server was really buggered. His client had just embarked on an PPC promotion with Overture, paying £3.50 ($6) for the keywords. And every click-thru bounced because the server was down - and they couldn't get it back on line :eek:

I swear to god, there's a line in the T&C that says essentially, if it you lose everything and they admit negligence -they are not liable. :eek: :mad:

Try Googling for 'Webfusion downtime' or support or issue or problems or...

Actually, just look at the list they admit to [ http://www.hosting-status.pipex.net/ ]

If they reboot or fix it before anyone complains, well, it never happened...

The general consensus is they are massively overloading the servers with users and they have us sewn up tight with the agreement.

All I wanted was a refund for the balance (after paying a year in advace) and ordering another VPS elsewhere. They can't because they have a strict policy of never refunding or compensating anyone, ever, regardless of the reason.

Here's a few quotes (*their typos'):



The dedicated one is a corker. Effectively if THEIR network is fine, but your dedicated server blows a gasket, you have no comeback because of the wording. Also, the clock starts ticking after you report it... If they don't notice and you don't tell them, well, tough!

Mutter...

.


thanks for the info - I'll keep an eye my account.....